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talks@conference.jones.dk
Friday, August 3, 2012< ^ >
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[04:25:40] nagzilla leaves the room
[04:25:52] nagzilla joins the room
[10:48:30] https://chat.jones.dk/[guest] joins the room
[10:48:39] <https://chat.jones.dk/[guest]> hi
[10:49:31] <https://chat.jones.dk/[guest]> an u see me?
[10:49:34] <jonas> yes
[10:49:36] <jonas> :-)
[10:49:40] <https://chat.jones.dk/[guest]> si
[10:49:42] <jonas> oh
[10:50:04] <https://chat.jones.dk/[guest]> spanish
[10:50:14] <jonas> try go out again and then write sara as your display name
[10:50:15] <https://chat.jones.dk/[guest]> did u move?
[10:50:23] <https://chat.jones.dk/[guest]> ok
[10:51:53] https://chat.jones.dk/[guest] leaves the room
[10:54:38] Sara Gebran[guest] joins the room
[10:54:50] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i got back here
[10:56:07] <jonas> ah
[10:56:08] <jonas> good
[10:56:25] <jonas> better if you write a single name as your display name - but that is not important
[10:56:37] <jonas> welcome to my chat system :-)
[10:56:55] Sara Gebran[guest] joins the room
[10:57:02] <jonas> what you did first time was write the web address as your display name
[10:57:04] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ahh cool
[10:57:15] Sara Gebran[guest] joins the room
[10:57:32] Sara Gebran[guest] leaves the room
[10:57:40] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok so now first did u move home?
[10:57:45] <jonas> yes
[10:57:45] Sara Gebran[guest] leaves the room
[10:57:52] <jonas> we now live on Orø
[10:58:23] <Sara Gebran[guest]> jesus! dunot know
[10:58:38] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i guess there are 100 people there?
[10:58:44] <Sara Gebran[guest]> all island for u?
[10:58:53] <jonas> there are 900 here
[10:59:15] <jonas> ...and many more during summer holidays - there are lots of summer houses here
[10:59:34] <Sara Gebran[guest]> wao, must be beautiful
[11:00:16] <jonas> We live exactly here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=162915305
[11:01:47] <Sara Gebran[guest]> wao so nice, its not that far from kbh
[11:02:21] <Sara Gebran[guest]> u like it?
[11:02:47] <jonas> ...or approximately here (on a map with detailed aeral photo): http://fugro.openstreetmap.dk/?zoom=18&lat=55.76432&lon=11.81715&layers=BTF
[11:02:55] <jonas> yes, I like it
[11:03:18] <jonas> also, rent is almost 1/4 of the old place
[11:03:34] <Sara Gebran[guest]> important issue
[11:03:37] <jonas> I like that a lot too
[11:03:38] <jonas> yes
[11:03:41] <Sara Gebran[guest]> si
[11:03:45] <jonas> da
[11:03:50] <Sara Gebran[guest]> da?
[11:03:53] <jonas> russian
[11:03:53] <Sara Gebran[guest]> dadaist?
[11:03:57] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ah
[11:03:59] <jonas> :-)
[11:04:02] <Sara Gebran[guest]> haha
[11:04:37] <jonas> (or really it is russian transliterated into latin letters
[11:04:50] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ah
[11:04:57] <jonas> I don't have easy access to russian letters on this keyboard :-)
[11:05:01] <Sara Gebran[guest]> dont tell me u speak russian?
[11:05:44] <jonas> ДА
[11:06:21] <Sara Gebran[guest]> wao, impressive
[11:06:29] <Sara Gebran[guest]> r u googling translate?
[11:06:34] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i do that all the time
[11:06:51] <Sara Gebran[guest]> no shame
[11:06:57] <Sara Gebran[guest]> but bad trans
[11:08:15] <Sara Gebran[guest]> well listen i delay too much my website issues..  i need to check how some material= text, was erased from it about 3 month ago. could u help?
[11:08:57] <jonas> yes
[11:09:38] <jonas> (I was looking for cyrillic alphabet to impress you with a full sentence, but it takes too long - but yes, I do speak a little bit of russian, and I don't use Google)
[11:09:57] <jonas> I avoid Google and Facebook for political reasons
[11:09:59] Sara Gebran[guest] leaves the room
[11:10:03] Sara Gebran[guest] joins the room
[11:10:13] <Sara Gebran[guest]> haha cool. i love that language
[11:10:25] <Sara Gebran[guest]> I understand
[11:10:45] <jonas> tell me about the text you lost
[11:10:47] <Sara Gebran[guest]> what do u use instead of google?
[11:10:54] <Sara Gebran[guest]> oh ok
[11:11:05] <Sara Gebran[guest]> if you get to my webpage public-.dk
[11:11:14] <Sara Gebran[guest]> public-dk
[11:11:25] <Sara Gebran[guest]> in the lastest news
[11:11:40] <Sara Gebran[guest]> you will see at the end of the page the text is incomplete
[11:12:35] <jonas> go to admin.public-e.dk
[11:12:43] <jonas> in latest news
[11:12:57] <jonas> click on RecentChanges at the top
[11:13:13] <Sara Gebran[guest]> 1 sec
[11:13:44] <jonas> there you can see all changes done to the website
[11:14:22] <Sara Gebran[guest]> there is an Internal Server Error
[11:14:49] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i cant access my admin in saragebran.myopenid.com
[11:15:19] <jonas> yes, I see it also now
[11:15:54] <jonas> let me fix that - it takes a little time... - do you have time to wait?
[11:16:06] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes
[11:16:21] <jonas> I suggest that in the waiting time you install a real Jabber program - so that you don't need to use this webchat in the future
[11:16:33] <jonas> do you use Windows or Mac? Mac, right?
[11:18:20] <jonas> on Windows try install Gajim from http://gajim.org/
[11:18:31] <jonas> on Mac try use iChat
[11:18:41] <Sara Gebran[guest]> mac
[11:18:44] <jonas> ok
[11:19:10] <jonas> you also need a Jabber id
[11:19:24] <jonas> ...but you have an account at my server, so you already have an id
[11:19:33] <jonas> your id is sg@jones.dk
[11:19:33] <Sara Gebran[guest]> hum?
[11:19:40] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ah
[11:19:40] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok
[11:19:48] <jonas> do you remember the password to your email sg@jones.dk?
[11:19:58] <jonas> don't tell me!
[11:20:00] <Sara Gebran[guest]> let me serach
[11:20:05] <jonas> just tell me if you remember it
[11:21:17] <Sara Gebran[guest]> hum dont know i will try, which site i use?
[11:23:13] <jonas> https://mail.jones.dk/
[11:26:42] <jonas> ok - the source view is working now!
[11:27:23] <jonas> try click on RecentChanges at the top of http://admin.public-e.dk/news/ now
[11:27:31] <Sara Gebran[guest]> 1 sec
[11:27:35] <Sara Gebran[guest]> 1 sec
[11:29:40] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i am on RecentChanges now on the top
[11:30:37] <jonas> good
[11:30:55] <jonas> for each change you can read your comment about what you changed
[11:31:25] <jonas> unfortunately you did not listen to my recommendation: I recommended you to *always* write a comment about what you changed
[11:31:43] <jonas> so now it is difficult to see what you should look at :-(
[11:31:52] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i know but some times i did a loooots of changes
[11:31:53] <jonas> you need to look at everything :-(
[11:32:00] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok
[11:32:06] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i guess i start in march
[11:32:11] <jonas> do you see the 3d glasses in the right side?
[11:32:17] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes
[11:32:32] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i am clicking there
[11:32:57] <jonas> when you click on those, you are taken to the source browser to show details of that changes
[11:33:13] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok
[11:33:23] <jonas> red lines are removed, green lines are added
[11:33:32] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok
[11:34:15] <jonas> you can go back step by step in the history and see when you accidentally removed something wrongly
[11:34:36] <jonas> when you find the place, tell me, and I can help put it back again
[11:34:37] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok so if i see that some red lines removed some text how do i put it back?
[11:34:54] <jonas> tell me
[11:35:05] <jonas> then I help you put it back
[11:35:16] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i am now in  b7350dcb5b2b5714f8c4c69efda207c0677816f7
[11:35:36] <jonas> first I look at what changed, and decide if it is easy or difficult to change back
[11:35:40] <jonas> ok
[11:36:09] <jonas> please give me a full URL
[11:36:18] <jonas> URL == address in your browser
[11:36:43] <Sara Gebran[guest]> 1 sec
[11:37:06] <jonas> (you don't need to tell me that seconds go by - I know that already ;-)  )
[11:37:28] <jonas> (time is quite difficult to avoid)
[11:39:42] <Sara Gebran[guest]> if you go to web  10:52:05    23-02-2012
[11:40:00] <Sara Gebran[guest]> it saids removed, i think this is the text that has been removed
[11:40:02] <jonas> please give me a URL
[11:40:35] <jonas> As an example, this is the URL for the first 3d glasses: http://source.public-e.dk/?p=site/content.git;a=blobdiff;f=news.mdwn;h=2c35300ad1fcce89b672cbb4102bcf122db48ec0;hp=0eba8daaa085ccd00a08e9d98a3ddde161e8ab34;hb=dd22950d9ddd40330a245979ad4e90518a5c632b;hpb=d288f363962e321797b2970c9443f89bcb403490
[11:41:56] <jonas> find the web page you want to share with me, then copy the contents of the address field of your web browser, and then paste it into this chat
[11:42:32] <Sara Gebran[guest]> is it this? http://source.public-e.dk/?p=site/content.git;a=blob;f=news.mdwn;h=0de84fa7992343b13041b1b3080c33f47812a24c;hb=0de84fa7992343b13041b1b3080c33f47812a24c
[11:42:51] <Sara Gebran[guest]> or http://source.public-e.dk/?p=site/content.git;a=blobdiff;f=news.mdwn;h=84611a62bbee09726d26e86534925c4c0ec9786a;hp=0de84fa7992343b13041b1b3080c33f47812a24c;hb=1ad8ff362d1468c73daf7c576a91947a945f17db;hpb=5a53bb871d23a2f0ef1273ad84982e98a9883f2f
[11:43:17] <jonas> it is the last one
[11:43:35] <Sara Gebran[guest]> oki
[11:43:43] <Sara Gebran[guest]> this then
[11:43:45] <Sara Gebran[guest]> http://source.public-e.dk/?p=site/content.git;a=blob;f=news.mdwn;h=d4c3f9b078b9819f6173dc0d29e57751c25d2640;hb=d4c3f9b078b9819f6173dc0d29e57751c25d2640
[11:43:46] <jonas> the first one shows the content before or after a change - the last shows the diff between before and after
[11:43:55] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok
[11:44:10] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ah so this http://source.public-e.dk/?p=site/content.git;a=blobdiff;f=news.mdwn;h=b8fa315daf0bb2f5eb9c217ad441a8e7cbe6fbef;hp=d4c3f9b078b9819f6173dc0d29e57751c25d2640;hb=9b91927a921e57df7649fc3d28ecb061e535c0d2;hpb=e8017fc72c214e937c5951a247319d58dcc1b6e8
[11:44:49] <jonas> only change there is that you changed from "Overgaden" to "at Overgaden"
[11:45:02] <Sara Gebran[guest]> hum
[11:45:12] <jonas> do you follow?
[11:45:22] <Sara Gebran[guest]> but if i press the red text i see all the information that is gone.
[11:45:42] <jonas> what red text?
[11:46:01] <jonas> you mean a/news.mdwn ?
[11:46:16] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes
[11:46:20] <jonas> ahh
[11:46:38] <Sara Gebran[guest]> :)
[11:46:45] <jonas> when you look at a diff, it only shows the areas that changed
[11:46:53] <jonas> it does not show the full content
[11:47:16] <jonas> you can see the full content before the change at a/news.mdwn - and the full content after the change at b/news.mdwn
[11:47:40] <Sara Gebran[guest]> aha
[11:48:10] <jonas> when you found what is missing at a/news.mdwn, and you don't see the lost parts at the diff page, it only tells that you are looking at too old change
[11:48:35] <Sara Gebran[guest]> so that change was done much before?
[11:48:35] <jonas> you need to find the diff page that shows the lost piece as red lines
[11:48:56] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i will look, not sure i got that
[11:49:06] <jonas> you are looking at an older diff than what you are searching for
[11:49:31] <Sara Gebran[guest]> so the missing parts are removed later on
[11:50:40] <jonas> yes
[11:50:52] <jonas> I found an easier way to step through all changes
[11:51:00] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok
[11:51:05] <jonas> 1) go back to Latest news
[11:51:28] <jonas> 2) instead of RecentChanges click on History
[11:51:37] <Sara Gebran[guest]> I found it
[11:51:49] <Sara Gebran[guest]> oh sorry i found where was the change
[11:51:55] <jonas> ah - good
[11:52:01] <jonas> what is the URL?
[11:52:04] <Sara Gebran[guest]> http://source.public-e.dk/?p=site/content.git;a=blobdiff;f=news.mdwn;h=0b874d263d48b361d1f6b2c6fda684f03391b9a1;hp=142f58970e1cd3adf63fd2af51a1d78698f5ec0f;hb=18bc7567717af1f4bab6432704ad9a8cafa1e5a3;hpb=43a00a18c89d978bb393b3385068d9c2f0e1311b
[11:52:14] <jonas> yes
[11:53:05] <jonas> try click on the red cross for that change
[11:53:50] <jonas> the red cross _below_ the 3d glasses
[11:54:08] <jonas> that will ask you to log in with OpenID (if you haven't done that already)
[11:54:26] <jonas> ...and then maaaaybe will magically re-add the lost piece
[11:54:35] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok
[11:54:41] <jonas> if it does not, then tell me
[11:54:52] <jonas> also tell me if it gives a warning
[11:56:06] <Sara Gebran[guest]> it said: confirm reversion of 18bc7567717af1f4bab6432704ad9a8cafa1e5a3
[11:56:27] <Sara Gebran[guest]> and then a fold to fill in saying revert or cancel
[11:56:46] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i should select revert right
[11:57:05] <jonas> yes
[11:57:27] <Sara Gebran[guest]> it saids ERROR after pressing revert
[11:57:32] <jonas> revert means roll back that change
[11:57:35] <jonas> ah, ok
[11:57:49] <jonas> that is because you did other changes on top of that change
[11:57:56] <jonas> that's ok
[11:58:06] <jonas> I will do it now
[11:58:17] <Sara Gebran[guest]> oohhh
[11:58:39] <jonas> what?
[11:58:44] <jonas> did it work after all?
[11:59:34] <jonas> (instead of "revert" which only works on the top of the pile of changes, it apparently need a "cherry-pick" which you cannot do in the web interface)
[12:00:53] <Sara Gebran[guest]> so what do i do?
[12:01:30] <jonas> you lean back and let me do the work
[12:02:03] <Sara Gebran[guest]> :)
[12:02:36] <jonas> wait
[12:03:16] <jonas> when it gave you the choice between "revert" and "cancel", did it also show you the editing window with the full content?
[12:04:59] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes
[12:05:16] <jonas> then you can do it yourself:
[12:05:35] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok i press revert
[12:05:47] <jonas> try again, but before you click on "revert" you need to inspect the content
[12:06:23] <jonas> look for >>>>> and ===== and <<<<<
[12:06:42] <Sara Gebran[guest]> well some of the text in the start is too old and i changed already but i could copy in another page the website latest news and fix that text after
[12:07:05] <jonas> no, follow what I tell you here
[12:07:19] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok
[12:07:20] <jonas> for each of those you should decide what to do about it
[12:07:35] <jonas> the part between <<<<<< and ====== is the old one
[12:07:52] <jonas> and between ===== and >>>>> is the new one
[12:08:09] <jonas> when you revert, you obviously want some parts to be the old one
[12:08:20] <jonas> ...but maybe not all of it
[12:08:39] <jonas> try!  And ask if you don't understand
[12:08:46] <Sara Gebran[guest]> question.
[12:08:50] <jonas> shoot!
[12:09:19] <Sara Gebran[guest]> do i press revert now or not. i am in a page where i see the opstions revert of cancel and where i see all the old text, not all this signs you indicate here
[12:09:51] <jonas> you don't see an edit form?
[12:10:03] <Sara Gebran[guest]> no
[12:10:21] <Sara Gebran[guest]> only above is: recent changes & Preferences
[12:10:31] <jonas> ah, ok. That's what I asked about before
[12:10:42] <jonas> I was hoping you had more control over how to revert
[12:10:51] <Sara Gebran[guest]> nope sorry
[12:11:01] <jonas> you apparently can only revert when there is no "collision" with later changes
[12:11:10] <jonas> no problem - I can do the revert now
[12:11:15] <Sara Gebran[guest]> oky
[12:11:18] <Sara Gebran[guest]> da
[12:11:24] <jonas> I was just hoping that you could be more in charge of your own website :-)
[12:11:39] <jonas> so you don't need to depend so much on me
[12:11:55] <jonas> it is *not* that I don't want to help you
[12:12:25] <jonas> so in the future, try yourself, but if it fails just ask me to do it - giving me the URL to the diff page
[12:12:37] <Sara Gebran[guest]> me too, but i do not really see how to revert
[12:14:26] <jonas> the reason specifically that you cannot revert is that the place you removed some text, you later added some other text (the text "what happens? something is missing here"
[12:14:28] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i followed the instructures of pressing on the red cross . it leads me the the lastestnew spage, with the 2 options: revert or cancel.
[12:14:42] <jonas> you did not do anythoing wrong now
[12:15:12] <jonas> it is just that the web tool to revert can only do simple reverts
[12:15:37] <jonas> if you want to revert something that was later changed again, it is not simple to revert
[12:15:40] <Sara Gebran[guest]> oooh that sentence i add it just lately in june or july i think, beciase it was a bit emabarrase that people will look at my website incompleted
[12:15:45] <jonas> capish?
[12:16:16] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes
[12:16:49] <jonas> try go to RecentChanges now
[12:16:54] <jonas> ...and reload the page
[12:17:26] <jonas> ...and click on the 3d glasses to see what was changed
[12:17:43] <jonas> there you should see that there was 2 complexities
[12:18:47] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i click on the very top one?
[12:18:54] <jonas> the other complexity was that just above ***Maximum Spaces*** you later removed #Real News:
[12:18:56] <jonas> yes
[12:19:07] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes
[12:19:21] <jonas> now you can see exactly what I reverted
[12:19:25] <Sara Gebran[guest]> because there was 2 similar sentences saying real news
[12:19:34] <jonas> you probably want to adjust the text now
[12:20:02] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes i will ajsust the text.
[12:20:08] <jonas> ...and looking at the content "with 3d glasses on" helps you to see what you need to adjust :-)
[12:20:42] <Sara Gebran[guest]> One more question, I need to take most of this text = projects to another page in Repertoir becuase they are too old. how do i open a page in repertoire?
[12:20:58] <jonas> you mean how to create a new page?
[12:21:09] <jonas> or an existing one?
[12:21:14] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes in repertoure
[12:22:25] <jonas> what is confusing is that there is nothing below repertoir
[12:22:37] <Sara Gebran[guest]> what?
[12:22:58] <jonas> the repertoir page only "includes" some other pages
[12:22:59] <Sara Gebran[guest]> if you go here : http://admin.public-e.dk/repertoire/
[12:23:13] <Sara Gebran[guest]> you will see different projects tittles and in each of them there is info
[12:23:23] <jonas> yes
[12:23:28] <jonas> that is the result
[12:23:53] <jonas> the source - the text that you can edit - does not contain titles and detailed info
[12:24:36] <jonas> the repertoire *source* page only contains an instruction to include content from other source files
[12:24:56] <jonas> this cryptic line: [[!inline pages="link(project)" show=0]]
[12:25:42] <Sara Gebran[guest]> aahh DA
[12:25:57] <jonas> it means "include the content of all other source files that links to project
[12:26:22] <Sara Gebran[guest]> so hwo to add more content source files?
[12:27:08] <jonas> first look at an existing project file to understand how it appears in repertoire
[12:27:44] <jonas> if you go to e.g. exile09west
[12:27:50] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes
[12:27:57] <jonas> (the top one listed in repertoire)
[12:28:03] <jonas> then look at the source
[12:28:10] <Sara Gebran[guest]> da
[12:28:22] <jonas> either by clicking "edit" or clicking "History" and then "blob"
[12:28:36] <jonas> (the "blob" you don't need to login to do)
[12:29:09] <jonas> at the bottom of the source there is an instruction to "tag" as "project"
[12:29:13] <jonas> you see it?
[12:29:26] <Sara Gebran[guest]> no
[12:29:31] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i am in repertoire now
[12:29:35] <jonas> ok
[12:29:44] <jonas> click on the top title-link
[12:30:12] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i click on edit?
[12:30:12] <jonas> you should now be on the page with "Vertical Exile - West Bank '09", right?
[12:30:15] <jonas> wait
[12:30:21] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes
[12:30:21] <jonas> let's go slow
[12:30:33] <jonas> look at the address field of your browser
[12:30:44] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes
[12:30:48] <jonas> the address should now be http://admin.public-e.dk/exile09west/ - right?
[12:31:01] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes
[12:31:10] <jonas> good
[12:31:23] <jonas> that means the source page is exile09west
[12:31:30] <jonas> now select "Edit"
[12:31:31] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ja
[12:31:43] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ja
[12:31:50] <jonas> ...and look if there is a project tag
[12:32:25] <Sara Gebran[guest]> in the very bottom of the whole text there is: [[!tag project]]
[12:32:33] <jonas> the tagging can be done anywhere on the page - but I often put it at the bottom
[12:32:37] <jonas> yes
[12:32:40] <jonas> that's the one!
[12:32:48] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok
[12:33:04] <jonas> all source pages that contain that tag are included on the repertoire page!
[12:33:13] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ah
[12:33:55] <jonas> so the answer to your question is a) create a new page, and then b) when satisifed with how it looks tag it as a project
[12:34:12] <jonas> ...which leads to next obvious question: how to create a new page :-)
[12:34:57] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes
[12:35:04] <jonas> are you looking at the editing of exile09west now?
[12:35:34] <jonas> I mean, are you on the edit form for exile09west?
[12:35:51] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes
[12:35:55] <jonas> good
[12:36:06] <jonas> look at the address field of your browser
[12:36:18] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes
[12:36:20] <jonas> it should be something with ikiwiki.cgi
[12:36:31] <jonas> ...and also mention exilewest09
[12:36:46] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ???  i see thishttp://admin.public-e.dk/ikiwiki.cgi?page=exile09west&do=edit
[12:36:51] <Sara Gebran[guest]> sorry v
[12:36:52] <Sara Gebran[guest]> http://admin.public-e.dk/ikiwiki.cgi?page=exile09west&do=edit
[12:37:05] <jonas> ok
[12:38:20] <jonas> the way to create a new page is to a) find an existing page of the same kind (i.e. a project page now), and b) go to the edit form for it, and c) edit the address field of your browser to the source name of your new page
[12:38:43] <jonas> so now edit the URL to replace exile09west with the name of your new project
[12:38:51] <jonas> ...and press enter
[12:39:09] <jonas> that should bring you to an empty edit form
[12:39:27] <Sara Gebran[guest]> 1 sec
[12:41:46] <Sara Gebran[guest]> so if i am in the browser: http://admin.public-e.dk/ikiwiki.cgi?page=exile09west&do=edit, the only options i have is resentchanges and preferences
[12:42:38] <jonas> yes
[12:43:15] <jonas> move your mouse *above* the web content window, up to the address field of your browser, and edit that!
[12:44:14] <Sara Gebran[guest]> o edit the last part of thi: http://admin.public-e.dk/ikiwiki.cgi?page=exile09west&do=edit
[12:44:20] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ?
[12:44:30] <jonas> if you want to create a new source page named elephant, you should change the URL to be http://admin.public-e.dk/ikiwiki.cgi?page=elephant&do=edit
[12:45:15] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok 1 sec
[12:45:21] <jonas> use only small characters (not ELEPHANT or Elephant but elephant)
[12:45:29] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok
[12:45:54] <jonas> use only characters a-z and 0-9 (not ele phant or ællephant but elephant)
[12:46:24] <jonas> you can be creative with the content, but not with the name of the files!
[12:46:56] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i did this. I went to the URL and changed it to http://admin.public-e.dk/ikiwiki.cgi?page=exile09cph&do=edit
[12:47:12] <Sara Gebran[guest]> the only thing changed is west to cph
[12:47:49] <Sara Gebran[guest]> and i got a whole new page? with lost of text in the window
[12:48:39] <Sara Gebran[guest]> oooook no, sorry that page already exits.
[12:48:44] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i do a new one. wait
[12:49:44] <Sara Gebran[guest]> done
[12:49:59] <jonas> hmm - but is the new project 09?
[12:50:11] <jonas> I thought the 09 meant that the project started in 2009
[12:50:28] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes
[12:50:34] <jonas> if you create a new project page now, would it now make more sense to call it exile12cph?
[12:50:38] <Sara Gebran[guest]> the new page is for 2010
[12:51:05] <jonas> (you cannot rename pages, but I can - tell me if you already created the page and want me to rename it for you)
[12:52:04] <Sara Gebran[guest]> well i did what you told me and i see in recent changes that the new page is there but when i go to reprtoure it snot there
[12:52:04] <jonas> (...or if you don't want to wait for me, you can simply avoid tagging a page and create a new one - and then ask me to delete the unused wrongly named page)
[12:52:30] <jonas> it only appear in repertoire when you tag it as a project
[12:52:54] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ah how do i tag it as a aproject?
[12:54:02] <jonas> write [[!tag project]] somewhere on the page (I recommend to do it at the bottom)
[12:54:30] <Sara Gebran[guest]> done
[12:55:06] <jonas> Congratulations!
[12:55:13] <Sara Gebran[guest]> but i dont see a new page
[12:55:23] <jonas> reload the repertoire page
[12:55:35] <jonas> your browser just haven't realized yet that the page has changed
[12:56:29] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i also dont see the changes you did by adding the lost text in LAtest news
[12:57:06] <Sara Gebran[guest]> oh now i see the new page in repertoure
[12:57:12] <jonas> :-)
[12:57:49] <jonas> you added the project tag before you had written the page
[12:58:22] <jonas> I recommend to first write the page, and then when satisfied with how it looks tag it
[12:59:01] <jonas> similar to not drawing the curtains for a show before all artists have arrived on stage
[12:59:31] <Sara Gebran[guest]> haha
[13:00:45] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok in firefox i see the new page not in safari where i am now
[13:01:54] <Sara Gebran[guest]> oh another problem. it should only be the tittle in this new page where is part of the listing of all the projects and then when one clicks to the tittle then one can read the text, just now its not like that
[13:02:06] <jonas> your safari browser looked at the page before it was changed
[13:02:15] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok
[13:02:27] <jonas> now when you look again, your safari browser reuse the old information instead of fetching the updated one
[13:02:34] <jonas> you need to force it to look again
[13:02:35] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok
[13:02:51] <jonas> maybe it is apple+R
[13:02:59] <jonas> maybe apple+CTRL+r
[13:03:07] <jonas> maybe it is somewhere in the menu
[13:03:35] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ?
[13:04:41] <jonas> the place to force your web browser to refresh its cache
[13:05:30] <jonas> I mean somewhere in the *browser* menu (not in the web page menu)
[13:05:52] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i did
[13:05:53] <jonas> (if that might be what confused you)
[13:05:57] <jonas> you did what?
[13:06:06] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i refreshed it
[13:06:10] <Sara Gebran[guest]> now its there
[13:06:13] <jonas> good
[13:06:13] <Sara Gebran[guest]> the new page
[13:06:27] <jonas> about the other problem
[13:06:48] <jonas> look again at the source of exile09west
[13:07:10] <Sara Gebran[guest]> now this new page is also a bit wrong, cause it should only be the tittle in Repertoure,  as part of the listing of all the projects already there and then when one clicks to the tittle then one can read the text, just now its not like that
[13:07:24] <jonas> look again at the source of exile09west!
[13:07:51] <jonas> let me explain to you what the different hints in that file means
[13:08:10] <jonas> at the bottom there is a project tag
[13:08:16] <jonas> there are other instructions
[13:08:16] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes
[13:08:28] <jonas> are you looking at the source of exile09west now?
[13:08:55] <Sara Gebran[guest]> si
[13:09:14] <jonas> there is a !meta title
[13:09:19] <Sara Gebran[guest]> da
[13:09:37] <jonas> that means "title of the page" - i.e. what is on top of the browser window
[13:09:51] <Sara Gebran[guest]> da
[13:10:19] <jonas> !meta date overrides the timestamp
[13:10:32] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok
[13:10:37] <jonas> if you don't include !meta date then the time is taken from the time you created the page
[13:10:57] <jonas> time affects the order of listing e.g. when included on repertoire
[13:11:15] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ah
[13:11:23] <Sara Gebran[guest]> filosofi
[13:11:45] <jonas> the next one is what you are looking for: [[!if test="included()" then="""
[13:12:08] <jonas> it means "show the following when the page is included into another page"
[13:12:16] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok
[13:12:24] <jonas> ...and then """
[13:12:30] <jonas> else="""
[13:12:34] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok
[13:12:44] <jonas> ...means "if shown on its own page, show this instead"
[13:12:53] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok
[13:13:02] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i should do the same in the new page
[13:13:07] <Sara Gebran[guest]> but dated to today
[13:13:14] <jonas> and then all instructions must be finished with ]]
[13:13:31] <Sara Gebran[guest]> da
[13:13:38] <jonas> ...and """ also needs to be finished. So remember to add """]] at the end
[13:14:11] <jonas> yes, you should look at existing similar pages how they are done, and consider doing similar for new pages
[13:14:34] <jonas> try to understand what it is (not blindly copy things you don't understand)
[13:14:47] <jonas> ask me if there is something you don't understand
[13:14:48] <jonas> :-)
[13:14:58] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i do it now and get to u in 1 sec
[13:17:43] <Sara Gebran[guest]> well somethings doesnt work
[13:18:11] <jonas> read what I wrote at 15:13:38
[13:18:46] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i addedd this 1): [[!meta title="Vertical Exile - Stockholm/Botkyrka 2010"]]
[13:18:48] <Sara Gebran[guest]> then
[13:18:54] <Sara Gebran[guest]> [[!meta date="2012-08-03"]]
[13:18:55] <jonas> I see what you wrote
[13:19:02] <Sara Gebran[guest]> then [[!if test="included()" then="""  
[13:19:14] <Sara Gebran[guest]> then """
[13:19:16] <jonas> please read what I wrote at 15:13:38
[13:19:18] <Sara Gebran[guest]> then else="""
[13:20:09] <Sara Gebran[guest]> sorry i did all
[13:20:15] <Sara Gebran[guest]> n dont work
[13:20:28] <jonas> What did I tell you at 15:13:38?
[13:21:49] <jonas> look up in this chat window!
[13:22:11] <jonas> look at 15:13:14 and 15:13:38
[13:22:50] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i can't do this. Nothing is workimng for me. and i do not understand why a webpage is so comnplicate it i am really sorry but i can't do this stuff. I am a chreogarpher and does not have the capacity to do programs and understand such complicated detailed webpages. i reallty can do it
[13:24:29] <jonas> you can do it
[13:24:33] <jonas> you did it!
[13:24:46] <jonas> there is only one tiny little detail missing
[13:25:13] <jonas> every instruction starts with [[! and end with ]]
[13:25:45] <jonas> some larger chunk of text in instructions start with """ and ends with """
[13:25:56] <jonas> you miss one line at the end: """]]
[13:26:11] <jonas> other than that you are good, very good!
[13:26:58] <Sara Gebran[guest]> where do i miss this:  """]]
[13:27:07] <jonas> try look at exile09west
[13:27:29] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i did
[13:27:29] <jonas> at the end of the text chunk you want shown when viewed alone
[13:27:41] <jonas> ...but before that final tag instruction
[13:27:56] <jonas> do you see it?
[13:27:56] <Sara Gebran[guest]> before tag?
[13:28:15] <jonas> do you see the last 2-3 lines of exile09west source
[13:28:48] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yes loks like this: [[!meta title="Vertical Exile - West Bank '09"]] [[!meta date="2009-08-29"]]  [[!if test="included()" then="""     """ else="""
[13:29:16] <jonas> look at the *bottom* 2-3 lines of exile09west source
[13:29:49] <Sara Gebran[guest]> looks like this : """]]  [[!tag project]]
[13:30:17] <jonas> in the new file, you start an instruction but do not "finish the sentence"
[13:31:03] <jonas> you instruct [[!if ... then=""" ... """ else="""
[13:31:18] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i did
[13:31:20] <jonas> you are missing the final """]]
[13:31:36] <jonas> you should instruct like this:  [[!if ... then=""" ... """ else=""" ... """]]
[13:32:00] <jonas> all instructions should look like [[!... ]]
[13:32:26] <jonas> ...and when you start a long text chunk with """ you need to also finish with """
[13:32:40] <jonas> therefore, you miss """]]]
[13:32:48] <jonas> whoops - only 2 ]]
[13:32:56] <jonas> you miss """]]
[13:33:49] <Sara Gebran[guest]> where
[13:34:00] <jonas> the 2nd line from the bottom of exile09west is missing in exile10stockholm
[13:34:22] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i think its done now
[13:34:39] <jonas> yes
[13:34:58] <jonas> perfect
[13:35:07] <Sara Gebran[guest]> but mam that was really hard.
[13:35:34] <jonas> I understand
[13:35:34] <Sara Gebran[guest]> why is this web so complicated it. i had another one called: quadraphonic.se super easy
[13:36:10] <jonas> good question
[13:36:43] <jonas> there are more qualities to web design than "ease"
[13:37:07] <jonas> this website prioritize other qualities than ease
[13:37:44] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i undersatnd but mades the user dependent
[13:38:01] <jonas> I don't understand that sentence - please try rephrase
[13:38:16] <jonas> oh - you mean it makes the user dependent on me?
[13:38:33] <Sara Gebran[guest]> i get dependennt on you cause in few weeks i may forgethow to do all this. cause its really cpmplicated it.
[13:38:33] <jonas> makes you depend more on me?
[13:38:44] <jonas> I understand
[13:39:10] <jonas> yes, that is a weak point of this system
[13:39:29] <jonas> it could be much worse, but yes, it is a weak point
[13:40:12] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok now we are all exosted right? i will practice to add more pages in reprtoure alone. so i clean up all this projects from Latest news
[13:40:44] <jonas> when you accidentally erase some content, then with this system you can locate exactly what and when you lost it, so that it can be reverted - but you cannot revert yourself when you have done other changes on top
[13:41:31] <jonas> with other systems you *cannot* locate what and when you accidentally lost content - and that feels more user friendly
[13:42:20] <jonas> ok - try practice on your own, in your own pace.
[13:42:33] <jonas> You can reach me on this chat room
[13:42:37] <jonas> one trick:
[13:42:41] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ok. tak so mukke. maybe we could another day disucss how to add video etc? & i also need to reward you with some fee.,
[13:43:06] <jonas> if you login and see that I am logged in also (at the right side of the chat window) then mention my name!
[13:43:45] <jonas> when you mention my name exactly as it is written at the right side, my web browser will blink and beep to tell that someone wants to chat with me
[13:44:20] <jonas> sure, let's talk more when you have regained some energy
[13:44:36] <Sara Gebran[guest]> hahaha, that was a brain storm
[13:44:40] <jonas> sure was
[13:44:46] <jonas> I am proud of you!
[13:44:47] <Sara Gebran[guest]> nerd
[13:44:48] <Sara Gebran[guest]> hahaha
[13:44:51] <jonas> seriously
[13:45:00] <Sara Gebran[guest]> ja?
[13:45:03] <jonas> yes
[13:45:09] <Sara Gebran[guest]> hahaha u like that
[13:45:17] <jonas> I don't like you becoming a geek
[13:45:30] <jonas> I like you not being stressed when we are looking at this
[13:45:40] <Sara Gebran[guest]> u enjoy torturering normal folks like me
[13:45:42] <jonas> this time you were not stressed - and we came a long way
[13:45:47] <jonas> hehe
[13:45:49] <Sara Gebran[guest]> da
[13:45:55] <jonas> no, I don't like torturing
[13:46:03] <Sara Gebran[guest]> sure dude
[13:46:08] <jonas> ...but Siri would probably say the same
[13:46:22] <jonas> (she is sitting next to me now, laughing)
[13:46:27] <Sara Gebran[guest]> here u get 2 smart women telling u something!!!!
[13:46:41] <jonas> oh shit
[13:46:48] <Sara Gebran[guest]> but listen to us
[13:46:54] <jonas> shouldn't you take a break or something?
[13:47:12] <Sara Gebran[guest]> haha ja, we do the video later, another day?
[13:47:22] <jonas> whenever it suits you
[13:47:29] <Sara Gebran[guest]> cool, say hi to Siri
[13:47:35] <jonas> "hi Siri!"
[13:47:43] <Sara Gebran[guest]> hahaha enjoy the rest of the cloudy day
[13:47:44] <jonas> oh, _to_ her
[13:47:48] <jonas> ok, I will
[13:47:55] <jonas> I will do both
[13:48:09] <jonas> you enjoy too
[13:48:10] <Sara Gebran[guest]> n kram to u. when r u in kbh let me know 23290139 i will be there from mondya even and on
[13:48:28] <jonas> I am seldom outside my cave, but thanks
[13:48:42] <Sara Gebran[guest]> see? geeking
[13:48:47] <jonas> I am a geek
[13:49:00] <jonas> I don't want you to become a (computer) geek
[13:49:07] <jonas> you are a dance geek
[13:49:33] <Sara Gebran[guest]> si
[13:49:40] <Sara Gebran[guest]> we r all
[13:49:49] <jonas> :-)
[13:50:17] <Sara Gebran[guest]> yallah til soon
[13:51:19] <jonas> w'alailum salaam
[13:51:26] <jonas> w'alaikum salaam
[13:51:41] <Sara Gebran[guest]> u Alan salaamkum
[13:52:26] Sara Gebran[guest] leaves the room
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