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[08:12:51] mahyuddin@jones.dk joins the room
[08:13:47] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> Hi Jonas
[08:14:09] <jonas> hi
[08:14:43] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> I see in Boxer Directory
[08:15:09] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> and i am open this makefile,
[08:15:28] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> this code wrong it targetroot=/media/boxer
[08:16:05] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> if this is true?
[08:17:01] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> when make install, the directory /media can create a directory boxer
[08:17:20] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> but this problem to freedom
[08:18:12] <jonas> I am not sure if I understand you correctly
[08:18:25] <jonas> you wonder if the targetroot is correct?
[08:18:54] <jonas> what is the problem?
[08:19:24] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes, i am correct targetroot=/media/boxer to /media/freedom
[08:19:32] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> but this work
[08:20:41] <jonas> I do not understandt
[08:20:51] <jonas> there is no problem?
[08:27:07] <jonas> you have created a config.mk
[08:27:22] <jonas> you should only add things to config.mk that you understand
[08:27:50] <jonas> read config.mk and make sure that you understand each and every line in it
[08:27:59] <jonas> ask me, if you want help understand something
[08:32:14] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> source=http://localhost:9999/debian
[08:41:52] muhammad@jones.dk joins the room
[08:42:00] <muhammad@jones.dk> hi all
[08:42:11] <jonas> mahyuddin@jones.dk: yes, that source line is to enable use of approx
[08:42:12] <muhammad@jones.dk> I recently installed debian
[08:42:22] <muhammad@jones.dk> do you have aplication cool  ???
[08:42:45] <jonas> muhammad@jones.dk: you mean if I can sugest some cool applications?
[08:42:49] <jonas> suggest
[08:43:35] <muhammad@jones.dk> debian very very stable ...
[08:44:15] <jonas> do you mean "very very boring"? :-)
[08:44:34] <muhammad@jones.dk> no no no .......
[08:45:03] <muhammad@jones.dk> only this time I get a very stable os
[08:45:10] <muhammad@jones.dk> it is debian
[08:45:29] <muhammad@jones.dk> i:)
[08:45:39] <jonas> did you install on a laptop?  Or a desktop?  Or a server?
[08:46:25] <muhammad@jones.dk> on laptob ...
[08:46:41] <muhammad@jones.dk> i must install compiz ...
[08:47:32] <jonas> "must"?!?
[08:47:43] <jonas> compiz makes your laptop slow and unstable
[08:49:42] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> jonas: i see code in Makefile
#arch ?= armel
targetroot ?= targetroot
targetdevice ?= /media/boxer/
[08:49:42] <muhammad@jones.dk> yes .... compiz make my laptob slow...
[08:49:53] <muhammad@jones.dk> and not stable ....
[08:50:29] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> but, when make install run
[08:50:49] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> this file mkdir /media/boxer
[08:51:53] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> This is problematic, targetdevice ?= /media/boxer/
[08:52:32] <jonas> do you set targetdevice in config.mk ?
[08:52:48] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> no
[08:53:24] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> what i can do?
[08:53:43] muhammad@jones.dk leaves the room
[08:56:48] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> ok,
[08:57:09] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> i am add targetdevice to config.mk
[08:57:52] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> is work copy to my removable disk
[09:00:56] <jonas> I cannot tell you what to do, because I do not understand what is the problem
[09:01:21] <jonas> please try tell me a) what did you expect, and b) what did you experience
[09:04:25] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> I was a longer learning Linux, and I'm also not very expert in solving the problem if a problem arises in debian
[09:08:21] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> about information that is in my facebook profile is only as encouragement for me to learn on, so I could really able to master what is contained in the information
[09:09:45] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> jonas: Can you give me the support and assistance in learning linux (debian)
[09:10:34] <jonas> I can try
[09:10:42] <jonas> it is a BIG topic
[09:11:29] <jonas> what do you mean "about information that is in my facebook profile"
[09:11:30] <jonas> ?
[09:11:51] <jonas> what is in your facebook profile?
[09:13:42] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> in my facebook profile, on Activities and Interests
[09:13:46] <jonas> what do you want to learn?
[09:14:12] <jonas> tell me here about your activities and interests - I do not like Facebook so do not want to look there
[09:14:20] <jonas> or
[09:14:43] <jonas> publish your activities and interests on a real web page instead!
[09:14:47] <jonas> :-)
[09:15:05] <jonas> like this: http://muhammad.jones.dk/
[09:15:57] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> Linux Networking, Linux Desktop, Linux System Administrator
[09:16:42] <jonas> ok
[09:17:02] <jonas> to learn you need to play
[09:17:20] <jonas> to learn networking, you need to play with networking
[09:17:24] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> oh
[09:17:40] <jonas> so you need to setup networking computers
[09:17:58] <jonas> similar for administration
[09:18:05] <jonas> you need to play with it
[09:18:29] <jonas> you need to setup a machine with multiple users, and play with different access rights of different users
[09:18:50] <jonas> play with different services
[09:19:04] muhammad@jones.dk joins the room
[09:20:00] <jonas> start playing with your machine (and for networking: setup more machines and play with them all)
[09:20:33] <jonas> when you experience problems, then ask me
[09:20:36] <jonas> or
[09:20:54] <jonas> when you get an idea what you want to play with, but don't know how to start, then ask me
[09:20:57] <jonas> ok?
[09:21:20] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes
[09:21:36] <jonas> so, what do you want to play with first?
[09:22:50] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> now I've been playing with the network, but this is still a small network using a modem / wifi router in a small scale, but this has never configure a server
[09:23:01] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> for this time i want to play a boxer
[09:23:44] muhammad@jones.dk leaves the room
[09:23:59] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> I think part of the boxer is the most basic debian linux
[09:24:28] <jonas> you need a purpose with boxer
[09:24:33] <jonas> boxer is a helper tool
[09:24:45] <jonas> you need to decide what you want boxer to help you with
[09:24:57] <jonas> what system do you want "boxed"?
[09:25:31] <jonas> a web server?
[09:25:41] <jonas> a desktop?
[09:25:44] <jonas> a router?
[09:25:54] <jonas> ?
[09:26:10] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> first time i want to a desktop
[09:26:13] <jonas> ok
[09:26:36] <jonas> then first find out what "desktop" means to you
[09:26:57] muhammad@jones.dk joins the room
[09:27:10] <jonas> what packages do you want on your desktop computer?
[09:27:42] <jonas> gimp?
[09:27:49] <jonas> kde?
[09:28:16] <jonas> doom?
[09:28:35] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> lxde
[09:28:38] <jonas> ok
[09:28:40] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> standard office and multimedia use
[09:28:49] <jonas> what is "standard" to you?
[09:28:57] <jonas> you need to define
[09:29:14] <jonas> what is normal to me, is not what is normal to you
[09:29:15] <jonas> :-)
[09:29:47] <jonas> do you know git?
[09:30:52] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> retrieval source code
[09:31:10] <jonas> yes
[09:31:43] <jonas> I have a script that can help you keep track of the packages you want
[09:32:08] <jonas> try do this:
git clone git://source.jones.dk/bin
[09:32:50] <jonas> and then, inside bin, run the script localbackuppkglists
[09:33:27] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> ok, thank jonas
[09:33:59] <jonas> the script saves some files below /tmp
[09:34:27] <jonas> do you see those files?
[09:35:21] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> i see file in total 540
[09:35:28] <jonas> ?
[09:35:48] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> i see list of file
[09:35:57] <jonas> do you see a folder /tmp/localpkglists...
[09:36:12] <jonas> ?
[09:36:43] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> in my system?
[09:37:17] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> or in subdirectory bin (from git)
[09:37:24] <jonas> in your system
[09:37:49] <jonas> when path starts with / it is a full path - so in your system
[09:38:41] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> in my system /tmp not include localpkglists
[09:38:59] <jonas> run the script bin/localbackuppkglists and then look for output files below /tmp/localpkglists...
[09:39:30] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> ok
[09:40:21] <jonas> you see the files now?
[09:40:38] <jonas> muhammad@jones.dk: you can try alos!
[09:40:42] <jonas> also
[09:40:55] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes, i see /tmp/localpkglists.edxnub
[09:41:23] <jonas> good
[09:41:48] <jonas> inside that folder, look into the file aptitude-installed-explicitly.txt
[09:42:55] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes, i see list a program installed in my system
[09:42:59] <jonas> ok
[09:43:15] <jonas> a lot of those packages are not important to you, right?
[09:43:49] <jonas> example:
[09:43:59] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes
[09:44:04] <jonas> is there any libraries listed in there?
[09:44:52] <jonas> normally you are not interested in libraries
[09:45:03] <jonas> you are interested in applications - on a laptop
[09:45:34] <jonas> the package management system - APT - has a trick for this:
[09:45:49] <jonas> you can mark packages as "auto-installed"
[09:46:36] <jonas> if you install gimp, then gimp needs some libraries - e.g. libgtk
[09:47:03] <jonas> when you install gimp with aptitude, then libgtk is also installed - but is marked as auto-installed
[09:47:22] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> oh
[09:47:36] <jonas> if you later remove gimp, then libgtk is also automatically removed, if no other installed packages need it
[09:47:46] <jonas> that is smart
[09:48:02] <jonas> keeps your installation tight and tidy
[09:48:22] <jonas> but
[09:48:47] <jonas> when you first install your system, you do not use aptitude, but debian-installer
[09:48:58] <jonas> debian-installer does not mark things as auto-installed
[09:49:37] <jonas> so now you have a lot of packages that you are not specifically interested in, but they are all marked as "manual-installed"
[09:49:50] <jonas> so you need to educate your computer!
[09:50:26] <jonas> you need to tell your computer which of your many packages you are explicitly interested in, and which you only want if other packages need them
[09:50:30] <jonas> ok?
[09:51:52] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes
[09:52:09] <jonas> you know apt-get, right?
[09:52:34] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes, i know
[09:52:41] <jonas> you know aptitude?
[09:52:49] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes
[09:53:05] <jonas> any time someone tells you to use apt-get, you should use aptitude instead!!!
[09:53:28] <jonas> (there are a very few exceptions to that rule, but generally it is true)
[09:53:32] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes
[09:53:47] <jonas> always (or almost always) you should use aptitude instead of apt-get
[09:53:53] <jonas> aptitude is smarter!
[09:54:05] <jonas> aptitude is also slower, but smart is good!
[09:54:39] <jonas> you can use aptitude in two ways: a) on command-line similar to apt-get, or b) in fullscreen mode
[09:55:39] <jonas> when you run "aptitude" with no additional options, it starts in fullscreen mode
[09:56:12] <jonas> in fullscreen mode, you can browse around in all available packages, both installed and not installed
[09:56:51] <jonas> you can compose a set of changes, and when satisfied press "g" (as in "go!") to apply the changes
[09:57:24] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes I've encountered this
[09:57:39] <jonas> now, go into aptitude fullscreen mode, and mark your installed but non-interesting packages as auto-installed
[09:58:05] <jonas> do it as root
[09:58:13] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> ok
[09:58:51] <jonas> you can also run aptitude as normal user - then it switches to root later as needed, but I am unsure how it then stores things like the auto-installed packages
[10:00:19] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> so whether aptitude should be run in root mode
[10:00:33] <jonas> when you are standing on a package, the letters in the left side are status hints
[10:00:42] <jonas> what?
[10:01:09] <jonas> yes, switch to root, and then run aptitude in fullscreen
[10:02:52] <jonas> the first letter is "i" if the package is installed now
[10:03:13] <jonas> the 2nd letter is "i" if the package will be installed if you press "g"
[10:03:37] <jonas> the 3rd letter is "A" if the package is marked as auto-installed
[10:04:02] <jonas> you mark a package as manual-installed by pressing "m"
[10:04:12] <jonas> you mark a package as auto-installed by pressing "M"
[10:04:18] <jonas> ok?
[10:04:25] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes
[10:04:42] <jonas> you can mark a whole section together
[10:05:44] <jonas> if you stand on e.g. libraries/main (not on a specific package) and press "M" then all libraries in main gets marked as auto-installed
[10:06:42] <jonas> what I often do is to mark EVERYTHING as auto-installed, and then mark specific packages as manual-installed until no packages will be removed
[10:07:03] <jonas> you see in the top line how many packages are going to be removed
[10:07:59] <jonas> if you press "g" one time, you get a summary of all the packages that will be installed or removed
[10:08:43] <jonas> it takes some time to mark everything - but when it is done, you have a smarter packaging handling
[10:08:46] <jonas> and
[10:09:06] <jonas> you can use my script to generate a list of the packages you want installed on a desktop!
[10:09:08] <jonas> :-D
[10:09:16] muhammad@jones.dk leaves the room
[10:11:22] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> great
[10:11:26] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> Thank Jonas
[10:11:41] <jonas> :-)
[10:11:55] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> This is a valuable lesson for me
[10:12:00] <jonas> good
[10:12:17] <jonas> here is a related summary: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/freedombox-discuss/2010-October/000164.html
[10:12:47] <jonas> I wrote that summary for use of boxer for FreedomBox
[10:13:16] <jonas> (I wrote it before I wrote the boxer tool, but the principles are the same)
[10:13:58] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> amazing
[10:14:10] <jonas> I am happy that you like it
[10:14:38] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> :-D
[10:17:15] <jonas> you can help me!
[10:17:38] <jonas> it is helpful to me that you use boxer
[10:17:55] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes
[10:18:10] <jonas> it is helpful to me that you make a list of the packages you want on your system, and use boxer to install the system
[10:19:09] <jonas> first play with your own system, then play with boxer to create a similar system, and later play with boxer and different systems
[10:19:48] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes, boxer in play
[10:23:17] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> now make install ready in my removabledisk
[10:23:34] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> but this not work in bootable
[10:27:10] <jonas> correct: boxer does not know how to boot
[10:27:32] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> oh
[10:27:57] <jonas> booting a laptop harddisk is different from booting a CD is different from booting an OpenMoko phone
[10:29:02] <jonas> boxer has a script to make one specific hardware boot: DreamPlug
[10:29:28] <jonas> that is because I worked on boxer mostly for FreedomBox, and FreedomBox use DreamPlug hardware
[10:29:45] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> so, do I have to manually install grub?
[10:29:56] <jonas> yes, or use syslinux instead
[10:30:08] <jonas> grub is complex to use
[10:30:17] <jonas> syslinux is simpler to use
[10:31:17] <jonas> correction: extlinux
[10:31:38] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> can you help me to install extlinux in my removable disk (boxer)
[10:32:02] <jonas> try use unetbootin
[10:33:09] <jonas> no
[10:33:15] <jonas> unetbootin looks wrong
[10:33:22] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> oh
[10:33:39] <jonas> unetbootin installs standard system, not your own prepared rootfs
[10:35:03] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> what should I use?
[10:35:14] <jonas> (wait - I am on the phone)
[10:36:07] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> ok
[10:38:11] <jonas> wait a moment, I will try find the kind of tools I have used myself in the past
[10:38:43] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> ok, thank
[10:42:38] <jonas> one approach is to use makebootfat
[10:43:28] <jonas> that is an old tool, but should have recently updated the documentation in /usr/share/doc/makebootfat/README...
[10:43:48] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> ok
[10:45:41] <jonas> another tool (but available only in testing and unstable, I believe) is linaro-image-tools
[10:46:51] <jonas> do you use stable Debian?
[10:46:58] <jonas> Debian squeeze?
[10:47:56] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes
[10:48:09] <jonas> I will try backport linaro-image-tools
[10:49:59] <jonas> no
[10:50:12] <jonas> that tool is specific to ARM computers (like phones)
[10:51:08] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> oh :-)
[10:51:40] <jonas> I suggest you try with extlinux
[10:52:27] <jonas> aptitude install extlinux
man extlinux
[10:52:39] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> ok, thank
[10:52:46] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> i will try now
[10:52:51] <jonas> also, remember to install a Linux kernel ;-)
[10:53:29] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> to my removable disk?
[10:53:34] <jonas> yes
[10:53:53] <jonas> boxer do not by default include a linux kernel
[10:54:03] <jonas> (hmm - it probbly should!)
[10:55:22] <jonas> after you installed onto the final removable media, you should be able to do "chroot /dev/the-name-of-your-mounted.media" and then "aptitude install linux-image"
[10:55:55] <jonas> ...or together: chroot /dev/the-name-of-your-mounted.media aptitude install linux-image
[10:58:20] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> ok
[11:03:09] muhammad@jones.dk joins the room
[11:04:22] <muhammad@jones.dk> what are you talking about ?
[11:04:26] <muhammad@jones.dk> :v
[11:04:43] <muhammad@jones.dk> ;-)
[11:05:25] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> jonas: thank
[11:05:51] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> i will left now, i want to back my home now
[11:05:55] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> bye :)
[11:05:57] <jonas> mahyuddin@jones.dk: you're welcome!
[11:06:03] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes
[11:06:27] mahyuddin@jones.dk leaves the room
[11:06:32] <jonas> muhammad@jones.dk: about installing Linux system more smart
[11:07:51] <muhammad@jones.dk> hehehe
[11:08:04] <muhammad@jones.dk> cool ...
[11:08:12] <muhammad@jones.dk> jones ...
[11:08:54] <muhammad@jones.dk> what * it * freedombox briefly so that I more understand?
[11:09:15] <muhammad@jones.dk> http://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox
[11:16:57] muhammad@jones.dk leaves the room
[12:15:43] muhammad@jones.dk joins the room
[13:48:36] muhammad@jones.dk leaves the room
[15:51:21] mahyuddin@jones.dk joins the room
[15:51:53] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> hi
[15:52:12] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> hi jonas, i am back again
[15:52:15] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> :)
[15:53:20] <jonas> hi
[15:54:35] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> we continued a boxer
[15:54:49] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> i will to play again
[15:54:53] <jonas> ok
[15:55:55] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> why this bash: aptitude: command not found
[15:56:42] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> this up when i am install (aptitude install linux-image) in chroot /media/freedom
[15:57:40] <jonas> probably because aptitude is not installed :-)
[15:57:50] <jonas> try apt-get install aptitude
[15:57:52] <jonas> :-)
[15:58:06] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> ok
[15:58:15] <jonas> you are allowed to think ;-)
[15:59:21] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> this same message
[15:59:26] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> bash: apt-get: command not found
[16:01:59] <jonas> what is the output of this: echo $PATH
[16:02:39] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin
[16:06:28] <jonas> and do this give a huge list as output?: ls /usr/bin
[16:06:51] <jonas> NB! both commands should be run when inside the chroot, obviously!
[16:07:39] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes
[16:07:59] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> when i run ls /usr/bin
[16:08:25] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> i am not see a aptitude / apt
[16:10:48] <jonas> but do you see hundreds or even thousands of other results?
[16:12:19] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes, i seeeven thousands of result
[16:13:48] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> when i am run ls -la /usr/bin
[16:13:56] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> totally results it 11992
[16:14:14] <jonas> hm. ok
[16:15:16] <jonas> inside chroot?!?
[16:15:47] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> yes
[16:15:57] <jonas> what is your full command?
[16:16:16] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> for install linux-image?
[16:16:20] <jonas> no
[16:16:25] <jonas> full command for ls
[16:16:41] <jonas> how do you make sure you are inside chroot?
[16:16:43] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> ls -la /usr/bin
[16:17:29] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> first time i use chroot /media/freedom
[16:18:21] <jonas> it seems wrong that you have 7k files in /usr/bin
[16:18:44] <jonas> I have 4k files in my /usr/bin and that is a full desktop + some servers installed
[16:19:24] <jonas> tr run as one single command: chroot /media/freedom ls -la /usr/bin
[16:19:40] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> ok
[16:21:23] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> when i try run chroot /media/freedom ls -la /usr/bin
[16:21:47] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> chroot /media/freedom ls -la /usr/bin/
total 11992
[16:21:57] <jonas> that is crazy
[16:22:06] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> oh
[16:22:08] <jonas> how do you count?
[16:22:20] <jonas> perhaps you count words, not lines
[16:22:50] <jonas> but still, this is sliding away from the main issue of why apt-get is missing
[16:23:05] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> this up in first line
[16:23:31] <jonas> I do not understand why you have a system without the basic APT tool apt-get included!
[16:23:59] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> ok
[16:24:06] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> i will try to play boxer in first step again
[16:25:38] <jonas> ok
[16:26:50] <jonas> try completely from scratch: 1) git clone into a fresh empty dir, 2) enable your approx in config.mk, 3) do example 1 (not example 2
[16:27:08] <mahyuddin@jones.dk> ok
[17:11:54] mahyuddin@jones.dk leaves the room