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talks@conference.jones.dk
Thursday, August 18, 2011< ^ >
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[03:23:33] [Doto VR] joins the room
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[07:10:33] jonas joins the room
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[07:38:08] <[Doto VR]> hy
[07:38:14] <[Doto VR]> how are you dr. Jonas
[07:38:18] <[Doto VR]> ???
[07:38:36] <jonas> hi
[07:38:57] <[Doto VR]> how are you?
[07:39:05] <jonas> I am fine, thanks.
[07:39:09] <jonas> And you?
[07:39:31] <[Doto VR]> i am fine, thank
[07:40:19] <jonas> Did you see the end of our conversation yesterday?  About Arduino?
[07:42:11] <[Doto VR]> yes i have
[07:42:20] <jonas> :-)
[07:42:25] <[Doto VR]> Can you help me, I compile glibc again but error continue?
[07:42:55] <jonas> why do you compile glibc?
[07:44:07] <[Doto VR]> oh yes, this is not in debian, but this is the LFS
[07:44:40] <jonas> ah
[07:44:49] <[Doto VR]> :)
[07:44:55] <jonas> I don't know Linux From Scratch
[07:45:23] <jonas> I recommend to use Debian, and work from there
[07:45:30] <[Doto VR]> ah
[07:45:35] <[Doto VR]> ok
[07:46:02] <[Doto VR]> i will use Debian
[07:46:06] <jonas> there is many many many ways to work with Linux. I know about Debian ways (which are in itself many ways)
[07:46:40] <jonas> one of the good things with Debian is that you do not need to compile glibc
[07:46:42] <jonas> :-)
[07:46:54] <jonas> glibc is heavy to build
[07:47:29] <[Doto VR]> oh
[07:47:32] <jonas> I never build glibc myself - I use the one already made in Debian
[07:47:39] <[Doto VR]> thank for information
[07:48:56] <jonas> you are welcome!
[07:49:11] <jonas> tell me about the system you want to build
[07:49:39] <[Doto VR]> in debian what should be prepared to build a system
[07:50:42] <jonas> there are many ways to build a system
[07:50:58] <[Doto VR]> etc
[07:51:12] <jonas> do you know git?
[07:52:05] <[Doto VR]> yes, this a program downloads
[07:53:35] <[Doto VR]> :-)
[07:55:07] <[Doto VR]> hello dr. Jonas
[07:55:32] <jonas> hi
[07:55:40] <jonas> (sorry - I was on another channel)
[07:56:09] <jonas> you can try use by tool to create a system
[07:56:15] <jonas> http://git.emdebian.org/?p=upstream/boxer.git;a=blob;f=README
[07:56:24] <[Doto VR]> ok
[07:56:52] <jonas> Several reasons to try that tool:
[07:57:14] <jonas> * I know the tool well, so can help you
[07:57:33] <jonas> * The tool is not finished, so you can help me finish it :-)
[07:58:02] <jonas> * The tool is not very complex, so you can learn from looking at what it does
[07:58:40] <jonas> * The tool is flexible, so you can extend it with your own customizations
[08:00:28] <[Doto VR]> if I use git, from where I should start one and if I can build from the debian-netinstall
[08:04:05] <jonas> http://git.emdebian.org/?p=upstream/boxer.git;a=blob;f=README
[08:05:17] <jonas> Try follow the "Getting the source" step and then Example 1 of  "Usage" in above text
[08:06:17] <jonas> tell me how it goes
[08:06:31] <jonas> then I can help guide you more
[08:09:23] <[Doto VR]> do i have to build the system in the main os or virtual machine
[08:09:47] <jonas> as a subdirectory on the main machine
[08:10:02] <jonas> no need for a virtual machine
[08:10:14] <jonas> (not yet)
[08:10:35] <jonas> later, to test your new system, you maybe need a virtual machine
[08:10:57] <jonas> first, try build a system
[08:13:53] <[Doto VR]> I now longer use LinuxMint, if I can just build it in LinuxMint
[08:17:11] <jonas> you use LinuxMint now, not Debian?
[08:17:34] <jonas> my tool - boxer - works only when you use Debian
[08:17:59] <jonas> I recommend that you use Debian
[08:18:13] <jonas> You can install Debian from http://www.debian.org/
[08:18:40] <jonas> find the download page, and download a "netinst" CD image for your architecture
[08:21:50] <[Doto VR]> ok
[08:21:59] <[Doto VR]> i have debian netinst
[08:22:48] <jonas> good
[08:23:21] <jonas> now create a CD and install it on your computer
[08:26:11] <[Doto VR]> ok i will create now a CD installer debian
[08:33:09] <[Doto VR]> oh ya
[08:33:10] <[Doto VR]> dr. jonas
[08:33:17] <jonas> ?
[08:33:24] <jonas> it works?
[08:33:52] <jonas> (you need only mention my name - jonas - no need to say dr.)
[08:34:30] <[Doto VR]> ok, i am sorry
[08:34:30] <[Doto VR]> jonas
[08:34:38] <[Doto VR]> do i have to install debian complete along with his gui
[08:34:45] <jonas> do not be sorry - be happy! :-D
[08:35:11] <[Doto VR]> ok
[08:35:36] <jonas> I do not understand your question. Yes, the netinst CD installs a full Debian
[08:36:15] <jonas> you can choose to install a minimal Debian, a Debian with KDE, a Debian with GNOME, a Debian with XFCE, a Debian with LXDE or something else
[08:36:25] <jonas> Debian is flexible
[08:36:31] <[Doto VR]> oh yess
[08:36:57] <jonas> (but remember that the more you install the longer it takes to instal - obviously)
[08:40:36] <[Doto VR]> yes, this affects the performance of my computer system and the length of time depends also on the speed of computer hardware
[08:41:08] <jonas> time depends mostly on the network speed
[08:41:22] <jonas> internet connection
[08:41:46] <jonas> but yes, it also depends on your hardware
[08:42:24] <jonas> if you have slow hardware, I recommend XFCE instead of GNOME
[08:42:45] <jonas> it is smaller and feels faster
[08:42:55] <jonas> I mean - it feels faster to use
[08:43:26] <[Doto VR]> ok
[08:44:04] <[Doto VR]> I had to choose XFCE
[08:50:04] <[Doto VR]> Jonas, I'm sorry I must left the chat, because i will to install Debian in this my computer now
[08:50:12] <jonas> ok
[08:50:15] <jonas> good luck!
[08:50:25] <[Doto VR]> thanks
[08:50:27] <[Doto VR]> bye jonas
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[11:23:12] [Rune] joins the room
[11:24:04] <[Rune]> Jonas, har du travlt? Kan se der måske er en anden chat i gang
[11:24:35] <jonas> ?
[11:24:49] <[Rune]> (det er Rune fra Københavns Delebiler)
[11:24:55] <jonas> Ja, jeg forstår
[11:25:03] <jonas> nå, nu forstår jeg dit spørgsmål
[11:25:09] <jonas> nej, der er ikke andet igang nu
[11:25:13] <[Rune]> ok, super
[11:25:25] <[Rune]> Ville bare lige høre hvordan status på kortet er
[11:25:29] <jonas> en fyr fra Malaysia er ved at installere Debian
[11:25:48] <[Rune]> hehe, ok
[11:25:48] <jonas> jeg arbejder på det
[11:25:56] <jonas> en fyr _i_ Malaysia
[11:26:24] <[Rune]> ok
[11:26:32] <jonas> jeg håber at have kortet på plads nu i eftermiddag
[11:26:59] <jonas> skal have fundet en metode til at lave et statisk kort med bilerne indtegnet
[11:27:27] <[Rune]> så man ikke kan zoome ind på adresserne bilerne står på?
[11:27:40] <jonas> det er en anden detalje
[11:27:57] <jonas> jeg snakker om at det *statiske* kort skal have parkeringspladserne med
[11:28:16] <[Rune]> nå ja, det er der på forsiden
[11:28:25] <[Rune]> *det der er*
[11:28:36] <jonas> ja, og det vil også blive genbrugt på "Parkering" siden
[11:28:40] <[Rune]> ok
[11:28:50] <jonas> hvordan går det med at luge ud i FIXME sider?
[11:28:52] <[Rune]> så der er et kort på den side - fedt
[11:28:58] <[Rune]> Er i gang lige nu
[11:29:11] <jonas> godt!
[11:30:36] <[Rune]> Spørgsmål: kan boksen på forside med nyheder i, have overskriften 'Nyheder'?
[11:31:38] <jonas> du mener i stedet for nyhedens een (under-)overskrift? Eller tilføjet?
[11:32:32] <jonas> jeg synes bedst om at der står titel for den konkrete nyhed
[11:32:36] <[Rune]> Så 'Nyheder' står på niveau med 'Udtaleleser' og 'Bilerne'. Nyhedsoverskriften er så en underoverskift
[11:32:59] <jonas> ...og så sørge for at gøre hver eneste nyhedstitel lækker!
[11:33:03] <[Rune]> Det er mere så man kan se at boksen er en gateway til flere nyheder
[11:33:52] <jonas> jeg forstår. Det er en TODO, ikke en FIXME - kræver mere snak
[11:33:56] <[Rune]> ok
[11:34:34] <[Rune]> Sidste spørgsål for nu: kan billederne på den store boks på forsiden beholdes, også når man mouser over de tre ikoner?
[11:34:54] <jonas> nej
[11:35:02] <jonas> eller
[11:35:33] <jonas> så skal der fikseres plads til billedet, fremfor som nu at det lander dynamisk i forhold til dens egen tekst
[11:35:46] <jonas> det er en større ændring
[11:36:06] <[Rune]> ok, det er også en evt. til senere så
[11:36:10] <jonas> ja
[11:36:20] <[Rune]> ok, det var det jeg havde for nu
[11:36:25] <jonas> jeg noterer begge disse ting på som evt. i TODO
[11:36:28] <[Rune]> ok
[11:36:31] <jonas> fint nok
[11:36:44] <[Rune]> Ok, vi snakkes
[11:36:49] <jonas> jeg er her ofte, hvis der er andre spørgsmål :-)
[11:36:54] <jonas> yes, vi snakkes!
[11:36:55] <[Rune]> Top!
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[12:58:48] [firdaus] joins the room
[12:59:12] <[firdaus]> hay jona
[12:59:24] <[firdaus]> heeyyyyy DR. jonas
[12:59:42] <jonas> hi
[12:59:52] <jonas> you running Debian now?
[13:00:17] <[firdaus]> no , just ubuntu
[13:00:29] <jonas> :-(
[13:00:50] <jonas> problems?
[13:00:51] <[firdaus]> heheee... iam putra aceh
[13:01:01] <jonas> oh
[13:01:02] <[firdaus]> no no thing problem
[13:02:02] <[firdaus]> how are you - what are you doing now ?
[13:02:23] <jonas> eating pancakes
[13:03:28] <[firdaus]> owwwhhhh ... okay I want to go pray I'll always come again
[13:03:31] <jonas> what are you doing
[13:03:43] <[firdaus]> I want to ask many questions about ubuntu
[13:04:12] <jonas> try - but I warn you: I use Debian, not Ubuntu
[13:04:14] <jonas> :-)
[13:04:53] <[firdaus]> ooowwhh okay
[13:05:04] <[firdaus]> thanks
[13:05:38] <jonas> ask!
[13:06:16] <jonas> :-)
[13:07:14] <jonas> Please ask your questions - I am curious what they are
[13:07:15] <[firdaus]> iam never try debian but i would try install yesterday ,
[13:07:24] <jonas> good
[13:07:54] <[firdaus]> see you tomorrow
[13:07:59] <[firdaus]> :-)
[13:08:19] <jonas> why?
[13:08:22] <jonas> why not now?
[13:08:32] <jonas> I am done with my pancakes
[13:08:51] <jonas> I finished eating all the pancakes!
[14:08:07] [firdaus] leaves the room
[15:18:00] [jonas] joins the room
[15:19:22] <[jonas]> hai jonas
[15:19:38] <jonas> hi Jonas
[15:19:39] <[jonas]> how are you doing
[15:19:50] [jonas] leaves the room
[15:19:51] <jonas> good, very good
[15:20:17] [Doto VR] joins the room
[15:20:21] <jonas> hi
[15:20:34] <jonas> are you running Debian now?
[15:20:36] <[Doto VR]> hi
[15:21:17] <[Doto VR]> no
[15:21:19] <[Doto VR]> because i am online in cafe
[15:21:28] <jonas> ah, ok
[15:22:00] <[Doto VR]> can you tell me about this book "Operating Systems Design and Implementation"
[15:22:12] <jonas> I only know the author by name
[15:22:17] <jonas> I don't know the book
[15:22:39] <[Doto VR]> ooo
[15:22:56] <jonas> the author wrote minix - the operating system that made Linus Torvalds start making Linux
[15:23:08] <jonas> Tannenbaum, right?
[15:23:17] <[Doto VR]> yes
[15:23:25] <[Doto VR]> By Andrew S. Tanenbaum - Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam, The Netherlands, Albert S. Woodhull - Amherst, Massachusetts
[15:24:01] <jonas> Tannenbaum charged money ofr Minix, and Linus felt it was annoying to pay for a system that was badly coded - so he started making his own
[15:24:40] <jonas> Tannenbaum argues that the reason Minix was coded that way was to be usable as a school example
[15:24:59] <jonas> ...but no, I don't know the book
[15:25:30] <[Doto VR]> oh
[15:26:16] <jonas> Is Zulfikar your teacher? Did he tell you to read that book for school?
[15:27:28] <[Doto VR]> oh no
[15:28:41] <[Doto VR]> I heard this book from my friends on facebook
[15:28:50] <jonas> ah
[15:30:23] <jonas> I can help you to create a full system from Debian pieces.  But I can not help you program an alternative kernel instead of Linux
[15:30:44] <jonas> I am not a programmer, I am a hacker.
[15:31:15] <jonas> well, some programmers are also hackers. I am a *different* kind of hacker :-)
[15:32:02] <[Doto VR]> oh
[15:32:49] <jonas> what are you doing in life?  When you are not sitting in a cafe chatting with me
[15:33:53] <[Doto VR]> I'm also not a programmer, but I just people who want to deepen on linux. and according to you if I could build a good system of debian?
[15:35:18] <jonas> I am not sure that I understand your question
[15:35:43] <[Doto VR]> I work and study are also soft-copy reading articles concerning the computer system (Linux)
[15:36:00] <[Doto VR]> i am not programmer
[15:36:02] <jonas> ok
[15:36:11] <jonas> no need to be a programmer
[15:36:21] <jonas> you ask if I think that you can build a good system from Debian?
[15:36:33] <jonas> or what did you ask?
[15:37:21] <[Doto VR]> true
[15:37:52] <jonas> yes, I think you can build a system based on Debian!
[15:38:32] <jonas> first you need to use Debian, to understand how it works - what is a little different from Ubuntu, and how it is flexible
[15:39:13] <jonas> When you use Debian, you can try use my script - called "boxer" - to automatically create a simple system
[15:39:15] <[Doto VR]> ok
[15:39:40] <jonas> Then you can hack on boxer, to create your own customizations of it
[15:40:08] <jonas> you can also use other tools. Boxer is just the tool that I use now, there are more tools
[15:40:39] <jonas> Boxer is good to stay close to Debian
[15:40:48] <[Doto VR]> ok, I like it
[15:41:26] <jonas> Another tool is "live-build" - it can auto-generate a live-CD similar to the Ubuntu install CD
[15:42:17] <jonas> there are many more tools. Let's start with boxer, then we can look at other tools later
[15:42:18] <[Doto VR]> usually how long it takes the maximum time in building the system in debian
[15:42:54] <jonas> the time it takes for the tool to create a system: 10 minutes
[15:42:56] <[Doto VR]> ok
[15:43:52] <jonas> the time it takes you to compose a system and to tell boxer how to make it: ???
[15:44:10] <jonas> maybe 1 week, maybe 10 years
[15:44:43] <[Doto VR]> oh
[15:44:53] <jonas> A project in Europe to create a Debian system optimized for schools have taken 10 years to create - and it is not perfect yet
[15:45:03] <jonas> :-)
[15:45:28] <jonas> but if you want something that is easy to do, then it does not take long time to do it.
[15:45:47] <jonas> what do you want your system to do?
[15:47:33] <[Doto VR]> I wanted to give something decent for ITC in aceh
[15:47:35] <[Doto VR]> to language problems, if I want to include the language "Aceh" how do you think?
[15:47:50] <jonas> sounds good!
[15:47:56] <jonas> translation is good!
[15:48:45] <[Doto VR]> thanks Jonas
[15:49:12] <jonas> No need to thank me
[15:51:19] <[Doto VR]> in my place when someone has provided assistance or guidance, then we deserve to thank him
[15:51:34] <jonas> ok
[15:51:52] <jonas> same at my place - in theory
[15:52:14] <jonas> ...but in reality it is normal in Denmark to not thank for help
[15:52:32] <jonas> I agree with you: it is good to thank for help
[15:52:48] <[Doto VR]> oh
[15:53:16] <jonas> it is just that I get a little embarrassed when you thank me - because it is not normal for me :-)
[15:54:14] <[Doto VR]> I think it's very good, in our interaction with anyone
[15:54:24] <jonas> yes, you are right!
[15:55:29] <[Doto VR]> ok, but it was very good
[15:55:39] <jonas> what was very good?
[15:56:18] <[Doto VR]> let's just say it can make us happy
[15:57:38] <jonas> yes
[15:58:29] <jonas> why are you interested in the Tannenbaum book?
[15:59:00] <jonas> I am interested in building many different computer things, not only "operating systems"
[16:00:38] <[Doto VR]> before I knew you, I do not know which one among many options to build the system, but now you have opened the way for me
[16:02:05] <jonas> ah
[16:02:24] <jonas> I understand
[16:02:26] <[Doto VR]> because I have something that could come true, before I think the book that perhaps I can better understand the operating system.
[16:03:01] <[Doto VR]> I was wrong
[16:05:14] <jonas> yes. Understanding the theory of operating design principles is not "wrong" but is a very slow way to go if your goal is to create a usable customized system
[16:06:18] <[Doto VR]> means you are very proficient
[16:07:39] <jonas> I do not understand the word "proficient"
[16:08:43] <[Doto VR]> expert or intelligent
[16:09:29] <jonas> not sure if I am intelligent on this, but I am experienced
[16:10:33] <[Doto VR]> ooo
[16:11:33] <jonas> I have worked 10 years with Debian
[16:12:20] <jonas> I have been interested in customizing systems based on Debian for 8 years
[16:13:24] <[Doto VR]> oh, a fairly long time
[16:15:34] <jonas> yes
[16:15:57] <jonas> time flies when you are having fun! :-D
[16:19:45] <[Doto VR]> I am new to linux first about 6 years ago, but it's not long since about a year later I left because I did not have a computer. but now I started again using linux at the end of the year yesterday with the office computer facilities
[16:24:09] <jonas> ok
[17:29:00] <[Doto VR]> I must left the chat
[17:30:40] [Doto VR] leaves the room
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