room is publicly logged: <a href="http://chat.jones.dk/logs/">http://chat.jones.dk/logs/</a>

room is publicly logged: http://chat.jones.dk/logs/

talks@conference.jones.dk

Wednesday, August 17, 2011< ^ >

Room Configuration

Room Occupants

GMT+0
[00:34:27] jonas leaves the room
[05:36:43] nagzilla leaves the room
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[05:36:56] nagzilla joins the room
[07:24:47] jonas joins the room
[18:33:01] [jonas] joins the room
[18:33:24] <[jonas]> te
[18:33:27] <[jonas]> tes
[18:33:48] <jonas> hi!
[18:34:13] [guest] joins the room
[18:34:21] <[jonas]> O...
[18:34:22] <[jonas]> ya..
[18:34:27] <[guest]> hi
[18:34:30] <jonas> one misunderstanding:
[18:34:39] <jonas> you write your own guest name as "jonas"
[18:34:48] <[guest]> yes
[18:35:05] <jonas> what I mean is login with your own name, and then when you are here, write my name here
[18:35:40] <jonas> do you understand?
[18:36:10] <jonas> the reason is, that when you say my name inside this chat room, my chat program will beep and blink
[18:36:30] <[guest]> jonas
[18:36:37] <jonas> yes - it works
[18:36:41] <jonas> :-D
[18:36:46] <[guest]> okay
[18:36:58] <[guest]> thank dr. jonas
[18:37:02] <jonas> next time you login here, then use your own name at the login page
[18:37:30] <jonas> (now your name - in the right side - is "jonas" - it should be "Ahmad" or "Zilfikar" :-)
[18:37:37] <jonas> whoops
[18:37:38] <[jonas]> O...
[18:37:38] <[jonas]> sory
[18:37:40] <jonas> Zulfikar
[18:37:52] <jonas> no problem
[18:38:16] <jonas> your friends are wlcome also to use this chat tool!
[18:38:36] <jonas> one important thing:
[18:38:41] <[jonas]> Yes.. I have invited them to here
[18:38:49] <jonas> All that is written here is "recorded"
[18:39:05] <[jonas]> but the problem is some of them have poor english
[18:39:07] <jonas> it is automatically saved as a log
[18:39:23] <jonas> so don't write secrets here - only public things
[18:39:42] [putra aceh] joins the room
[18:40:05] <jonas> heey!
[18:40:09] <[putra aceh]> hay all
[18:40:14] <jonas> hello putra aceh!
[18:40:21] [Jonas] joins the room
[18:40:21] <jonas> :-)
[18:40:29] [guest] leaves the room
[18:40:30] <[putra aceh]> yes , thank jonas
[18:40:43] <[putra aceh]> how are you jonas ?
[18:40:48] [Doto VR] joins the room
[18:41:03] [Jonas] leaves the room
[18:41:07] <jonas> I am great!
[18:41:17] <[Doto VR]> Hay
[18:41:22] <[jonas]> Putra Aceh, I woul like to introduce, Mr. Jonas is one Debian user
[18:41:23] <jonas> hi doto!
[18:41:24] <[jonas]> are that true Jonas
[18:41:37] <jonas> yes, I am Jonas
[18:41:47] <jonas> and yes, I am Debian developer!
[18:41:49] <jonas> :-)
[18:41:52] <jonas> who are you?
[18:41:53] <[Doto VR]> How are you Dr. Jonas?
[18:41:58] <jonas> thanks, I am fine
[18:42:06] <jonas> how are you - and who are you?
[18:42:34] <jonas> Welcome to my chat :-)
[18:42:44] <[jonas]> here, some of acehness who very interes in linux
[18:42:45] <[putra aceh]> yeahhhh Dr.jonas
[18:43:32] <jonas> oh - actually I am not a doctor, that is just a nickname
[18:43:52] <jonas> I did not go to university
[18:44:07] <[Doto VR]> thank, I am fine. I am admin in a group Arros
[18:44:18] <jonas> I just work with computers always :-)
[18:44:30] <[jonas]> No problem, the importand think is how usefull we are for humann being
[18:44:30] <[putra aceh]> what is your nick name ?
[18:45:09] <jonas> my nickname is "it-guide dr. jones"
[18:45:10] <[Doto VR]> i am interes in linux
[18:45:26] <jonas> [Doto VR]: we share same interest then!
[18:46:17] <jonas> [putra aceh]: no, correction: my nickname is "dr. Jones" - my company name is "it-guide dr. Jones"
[18:46:29] <jonas> how can I help you?
[18:46:38] <[Doto VR]> thank dr. jonas
[18:47:35] <jonas> it was a question: HOW can I help?
[18:47:36] <[jonas]> I think we start with easy disscussion first
[18:47:46] <jonas> ok
[18:47:50] <[Doto VR]> I want to build a Linux operating system in Aceh, but I am a person who is just learning linux
[18:48:01] <jonas> ok
[18:48:30] <jonas> doto: what system do you use now?
[18:48:48] <jonas> Ubuntu? Debian? Windows? something else?
[18:48:49] <[Doto VR]> can you help me? to build a linux operating system!
[18:48:55] <jonas> yes
[18:49:04] <[jonas]> I use Ubuntu
[18:49:07] <jonas> ok
[18:49:16] [jonas] leaves the room
[18:49:22] <[Doto VR]> I use ubuntu, debian and windows
[18:49:38] <jonas> Ubuntu is good for simple use. Debian is better for technical things
[18:49:38] [Fikar] joins the room
[18:49:53] <jonas> so when you want to build your own system, I recommend to use Debian
[18:50:10] <[putra aceh]> now I use ubuntu and windows 7 0s
[18:50:15] <jonas> ok
[18:50:19] <[Doto VR]> okay
[18:50:33] <jonas> putra: I recommend to try use Debian
[18:50:49] <[putra aceh]> l very like ubuntu
[18:50:56] <[Fikar]> what reason for use Debian (sorry I would like to sure)
[18:51:04] <jonas> when you use Debian, you will experience problems.  Problems are good: you learn from problems! :-)
[18:51:38] <jonas> but main reason to use Debian is this: Debian is flexible
[18:51:44] <[Doto VR]> I like it
[18:51:50] <jonas> Ubuntu is a user-friendly system
[18:51:55] <jonas> Debian is a universal system
[18:51:56] <[putra aceh]> yes i will try use debian andwhat version of debian stable
[18:52:08] <jonas> yes, try Debian stable
[18:52:14] <jonas> or try Debian testing
[18:52:16] <[Fikar]> what you mean universal system?
[18:53:31] <jonas> universal system means: it can be user-friendly, or it can be very small (like in a phone) or it can be very stable (like in a server) or it can be very specialized (like in a nuclear power plant)
[18:53:35] <[Doto VR]> where can I get debian?
[18:53:47] <jonas> http://www.debian.org/
[18:54:31] <[Fikar]> can we use debian on the phone?
[18:54:38] <jonas> Debian works on many different types of hardware, and for many different types of uses - not only for desktop use (like Ubuntu)
[18:54:58] <jonas> it is not easy to use Debian on a phone
[18:55:09] <jonas> there is 2 phones that work with Debian:
[18:55:17] <[Doto VR]> dimana saya bisa mendapatkan debian minimal cd?
[18:55:29] <jonas> OpenMoko FreeRunner and Nokia N900
[18:55:33] <[Doto VR]> where can I get debian minimal cd?
[18:56:14] <jonas> http://www.debian.org/ - and from there locate the download page - and on that page find the netinst for amd64 (or i386 if you use an older computer)
[18:56:24] <[Fikar]> [Doto VR] next week I will give you CD of Debian
[18:56:40] <jonas> fikar: you make it too easy for doto
[18:56:49] <jonas> doto: try yourself!
[18:56:57] <jonas> :-)
[18:57:27] <[Fikar]> :-)
[18:57:45] <[Doto VR]> ok dr. jonas i will try
[18:57:50] <jonas> when you go to http://www.debian.org/ then select your own language at the bottom of the page
[18:58:02] <[Fikar]> I have few of distro
[18:58:16] <[Fikar]> so, what are doing now in Debian?
[18:58:19] <jonas> ...if it does not already show the correct language
[18:58:29] <jonas> what I am doing now?
[18:58:37] <jonas> I am working on FreedomBox
[18:59:04] <[Fikar]> what is that?
[18:59:23] <jonas> FreedomBox is a system based on Debian, to run privacy tools, for non-technical users
[18:59:47] <jonas> FreedomBox is a physical box - a server - that you run in your own home
[19:00:15] <jonas> a very small computer - same size as a power supply
[19:00:32] <[Fikar]> O.. ya??
[19:00:43] <[Fikar]> that is a hardware?
[19:01:13] <jonas> yes
[19:01:32] <jonas> it is hardware, with Debian inside
[19:02:12] <jonas> It could be this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SheevaPlug
[19:02:22] <[Fikar]> what diferrent freedombox with ordinary computer?
[19:03:22] <jonas> The hardware difference is low power (11 watt - not 100 watt)
[19:03:55] <jonas> The software difference from Debian is it is optimized for 2 things: non-technical use and privacy-protecting features
[19:04:18] <jonas> Example: FreedomBox will contain this kind of chat system
[19:04:41] <jonas> When you use Facebook chat, then the owners of Facebook copy everything you write
[19:05:05] <jonas> With this chat, I own the system, so I decide who can see what we chat about
[19:05:07] <[Fikar]> that small box?? connected to keyboard, monitor and mouse?
[19:05:21] <jonas> no keyboard, no mouse, no screen!
[19:05:39] <[Fikar]> so how to use it??
[19:05:47] <jonas> right now you are connected to my server - you connect with your computers, not with a mouse or keyboard or screen
[19:06:14] <jonas> a desktop computer is something you use with keyboard, mouse and screen
[19:06:30] <jonas> a server computer is something you use with other computers
[19:07:00] <jonas> you -> desktop -> server
[19:07:02] <jonas> or
[19:07:15] <jonas> robot -> server
[19:07:16] <jonas> :-)
[19:07:30] [putra aceh] leaves the room
[19:07:36] <[Fikar]> I see
[19:07:36] <jonas> computers talk to computers
[19:07:58] <jonas> humans need keyboard and mouse and screen to talk to computers
[19:08:07] <jonas> computers talk directly to computers
[19:08:27] <jonas> when many computers talk together - it is called internet :-D
[19:08:30] <[Fikar]> how freedombox working ?
[19:09:01] <jonas> technically, FreedomBox is working exactly as other server computers
[19:09:23] <jonas> so when we create FreedomBox, we first install Debian on normal computers
[19:09:35] <jonas> ...and remove keyboard and mouse and screen
[19:09:50] <jonas> ...and talk with it through another computer
[19:10:37] <[Fikar]> are that is expensive?
[19:10:41] <jonas> you know how a website works?
[19:11:04] <jonas> no, the FreedomBox hardware is quite cheap
[19:11:58] <[Fikar]> how much?
[19:12:05] <jonas> $99 at the main company, GlobalScale: http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-22-sheevaplug-dev-kit-us.aspx
[19:12:17] <[Doto VR]> Conversation more interesting, but I apologize because one or the other thing I should stop here for tonight. At other times we go again. Thank You Dr. Jonas on the time and opportunity. Good morning all and see you tomorrow.
[19:12:18] <[Doto VR]> bye
[19:12:29] <jonas> bye doto
[19:12:33] <jonas> come back soon!
[19:12:59] <[Doto VR]> ok i will back again tomorrow
[19:13:19] <jonas> great
[19:13:27] <jonas> you can also read our chat here: https://chat.jones.dk/logs/talks/2011/08/17.html
[19:13:51] <[Doto VR]> ok
[19:13:52] <jonas> so remember: this chat place you should not talk about secrets - I want all public
[19:13:57] <jonas> :-)
[19:14:09] <[Fikar]> great, so everythink will be record as you say before
[19:14:13] <jonas> yes
[19:14:24] <jonas> that is bad if you do not know
[19:14:35] <jonas> but it is a helpful tool when you know it
[19:14:37] <[Fikar]> no this is good
[19:14:44] <jonas> I agree! :-)
[19:15:06] <[Fikar]> so in future this is usefull for any software developmnet
[19:15:25] [Doto VR] leaves the room
[19:15:35] <jonas> the goal of the FreedomBox is to make you - the owner of the box - the master of your own communication
[19:15:54] <jonas> It is bad that Facebook decides what to keep secret and what to publish
[19:16:14] <jonas> you should choose yourself what you want to keep secret or publish
[19:16:27] <jonas> each of us should choose personally!
[19:16:37] <[Fikar]> yes
[19:16:37] <jonas> so each of us should have a FreedomBox
[19:16:38] <[Fikar]> I agree with you
[19:16:52] <jonas> so the FreedomBox must be cheap to buy
[19:17:07] <jonas> and the FreedomBox must be very very VERY easy to use!
[19:17:44] <jonas> and the FreedomBox must help you to keep control yourself of how to handle your own communication
[19:17:57] <jonas> I have worked on this project for 1 year now
[19:18:18] <jonas> together with 20-30 others
[19:18:19] <[Fikar]> to build a FreedomBox?
[19:18:34] <jonas> to design the concept for building FreedomBoxes, yes
[19:18:53] <jonas> it will take several years
[19:19:27] <jonas> but we will soon - maybe in 1 or 2 months from now - be able to build the first test boxes
[19:19:37] <jonas> the first ones will not be easy to use
[19:20:05] <jonas> but they will be useful for people like you to play with - and learn how to build a custom system based on Debian!
[19:20:06] <[Fikar]> why?
[19:20:23] <jonas> it is very difficult to make a computer simple to use
[19:20:53] <[Fikar]> Jonas....I would like to ask some think
[19:21:33] <jonas> A Debian system is very VERY flexible. There is many things you can change and select and tune. it is very difficult to find out what to hide from all those many choices
[19:21:39] <jonas> sure - ask!
[19:21:54] <jonas> (you do not need to ask for permission - just ask!)
[19:22:00] <[Fikar]> if we have some hardware, how to build like driver in windows
[19:22:11] <jonas> I do not understand
[19:22:24] <jonas> "like driver in Windows"?
[19:22:34] <[Fikar]> I mean to conected with computer
[19:22:38] <[Fikar]> yes..
[19:22:44] <jonas> give me a concrete example
[19:22:50] <[Fikar]> let say the FreedomBox
[19:22:53] <jonas> ok
[19:23:03] <[Fikar]> that is the new hardware
[19:23:12] <jonas> bad example
[19:23:16] <[Fikar]> and we will connected to computer
[19:23:20] <jonas> you do not know what is Free3domBox
[19:23:23] <[Fikar]> hahah
[19:23:32] <[Fikar]> no..no...
[19:23:34] <jonas> give an example that you know
[19:23:42] <[Fikar]> Ok..
[19:24:15] <[Fikar]> I want to build a hardware to control heat in forest
[19:24:47] <[Fikar]> so that hardware will give warning to the computer if somethink burn in forest
[19:25:16] <jonas> ah
[19:25:27] <jonas> good example
[19:25:30] <jonas> :-)
[19:26:02] <[Fikar]> how can I make comunication betwen that hardware with computer?
[19:26:18] <jonas> you want to learn how to build that special hardware?  or you want to learn how you make that special hardware communicate with Windows?
[19:27:23] <jonas> ?
[19:27:51] [Fikar] leaves the room
[19:32:11] [Fikar] joins the room
[19:33:14] <[Fikar]> sorry
[19:33:25] <[Fikar]> my connection is to bad
[19:33:39] <[Fikar]> Ok.. its work now
[19:34:31] <[Fikar]> so I would like to know how to make a hardware can commicate with computer in linux operating system
[19:38:13] <jonas> ah, you are back!
[19:38:35] <jonas> remember: mention my name to make my system say beep! :-)
[19:39:13] <jonas> What you want is to build a microcontroller
[19:39:21] <[Fikar]> Ok
[19:39:36] <[Fikar]> yes
[19:39:40] <jonas> you want to use Arduino
[19:39:51] <[Fikar]> what is that?
[19:40:18] <jonas> that is a microcontroller that is (relatively) easy to setup to talk with bigger computers
[19:41:50] <[Fikar]> are that is working with destop?
[19:42:01] <jonas> I think you want this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wackyvorlon/370253308/
[19:43:20] <jonas> Here is a tutorial: http://www.hacktronics.com/Tutorials/arduino-digital-temperature-sensor-tutorial.html
[19:43:46] <jonas> yes, Arduino can communicate with your desktop computer
[19:44:10] <[Fikar]> Wow.. that is great
[19:44:11] <jonas> Arduino is electronics
[19:44:22] <jonas> digital electronics
[19:44:44] <jonas> you can build a module that communicates with a serial cable to your computer
[19:45:13] <jonas> or you can build one more module to communicate with ethernet - or with a radio
[19:45:24] <[Fikar]> but I want that is in Ubuntu or other linux system
[19:45:53] <jonas> you want your thermometer to be out in nature
[19:46:03] <jonas> to measure the temperature of nature
[19:46:05] <jonas> right?
[19:46:06] <[Fikar]> ya
[19:46:18] <jonas> you do not want your desktop computer to be out in nature
[19:46:21] <jonas> !
[19:46:24] <jonas> :-)
[19:46:35] <[Fikar]> yes...
[19:46:47] <jonas> you want your desktop computer to be inside the house, and your thermometer to be outside
[19:47:14] <[Fikar]> I want put the maensure apart in nature and thann read in computer
[19:47:16] <[Fikar]> yes..
[19:47:30] <jonas> If you build an analog thermometer, with a long long cable from outside to inside, then you loose quality
[19:48:05] <jonas> you want to run a smal digitl thing outside, so that you can send digital signals inside - digital signals are more stable
[19:48:24] <[Fikar]> yes, that I want
[19:48:34] <jonas> you want Arduino! :-D
[19:49:03] <jonas> An arduino is programmable micro-electronics
[19:49:18] <[Fikar]> :-)
[19:49:49] <jonas> Arduino is much cheaper than a computer - efen a FreedomBox
[19:50:17] <[Fikar]> do you know how much?
[19:50:23] <jonas> Arduino is a little more expensive than electronics designed for specific task
[19:51:32] <jonas> The website with the tutorial also sells Arduino boards and the add-on pieces: http://www.hacktronics.com/
[19:52:36] <[Fikar]> Hmm.. that is so cheap..
[19:53:07] <jonas> the three items for the tutorial is $50
[19:53:11] <[Fikar]> I would like build a system to control forest from fire
[19:53:29] <jonas> you probably also need some more to signal long distance
[19:53:38] <jonas> but not a lot more, only a little more
[19:53:40] <[Fikar]> yes
[19:54:10] <jonas> and then, when you learn exactly what you need, you can make many copies for your friends - cheaper than the first one
[19:54:36] <jonas> I guess your friends can also use an alert system. right?
[19:55:22] <[Fikar]> yes, I want put that alert system in all forest area
[19:55:24] <[Fikar]> if that is posible
[19:56:05] <[Fikar]> because aech year a lot of forest area burning
[19:56:16] <jonas> but
[19:56:24] <jonas> maybe we should think different
[19:56:37] <jonas> you do not want to burn your nice Arduino?
[19:56:53] <[Fikar]> :-)
[19:56:56] <jonas> maybe
[19:57:00] <[Fikar]> if that is posible
[19:57:16] <jonas> when it burns, then maybe it is only things above the ground that burns
[19:57:46] <jonas> maybe you could put Arduino into a air-tight box and put it into the ground
[19:58:07] <jonas> ...and only have a thermometer going out of the box
[19:58:19] <jonas> ...and a loooong cable back home
[19:58:44] <jonas> Then when it burns, only the thermometer melts, not the Arduino
[19:58:50] <[Fikar]> heheh, maybe I need wireless
[19:59:06] <jonas> The thermometer is $4
[19:59:08] <jonas> :-)
[19:59:22] <jonas> yes, maybe you need wireless
[19:59:43] <jonas> then it cost more - and in a fire your antenna and your thermometer will burn
[20:00:09] <[Fikar]> yes
[20:00:21] <[Fikar]> that is more cheaper to protect the forestry
[20:00:26] <jonas> yes
[20:00:44] <jonas> cheaper than what? cheaper than no warning system at all, you mean?
[20:01:02] <[Fikar]> hehehe
[20:01:14] <jonas> probably also much cheaper than any commercial warning system you can ever find!
[20:01:25] <jonas> and it is fun to make!
[20:01:39] <jonas> and it is educational to have your students help you make it!!
[20:01:41] <[Fikar]> :-)
[20:02:25] <jonas> One of my friends is a teacher in Germany
[20:02:47] <jonas> He told me that he is teaching some of the kids to program Arduino
[20:02:47] <[Fikar]> so me too
[20:03:08] <jonas> The kids are 13 - 15 years old
[20:03:12] <[Fikar]> o.. ya??
[20:03:15] <jonas> yes
[20:03:18] <jonas> well
[20:03:20] <[Fikar]> wow
[20:03:33] <jonas> he did say that it was not easy to have their attention
[20:03:40] <jonas> they made many errors
[20:03:42] <jonas> :-)
[20:04:42] <[Fikar]> I will try it, wint Arduino and with my student own the hardware
[20:05:49] <[Fikar]> Jonas, I'm sorry I must left the chat, it's 3 oclock in Indonesia
[20:05:57] <jonas> oh
[20:06:01] <[Fikar]> your information is very usefull for me
[20:06:01] <jonas> ok
[20:06:08] <jonas> I am happy to help
[20:06:20] <jonas> when is a good season of the year to visit you?
[20:06:26] <[Fikar]> see you.. I will came back soon
[20:06:39] <jonas> great!
[20:06:55] [Fikar] leaves the room
[20:55:02] jonas leaves the room
[21:17:04] jonas joins the room
[22:38:27] jonas leaves the room